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| More Dennis goodies!!! [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 04:40 AM CDT "Holy Man" and "Mexico" snippets are available over on www.pacificoceanblue.net Woo-hoo this CD set is going to be great!!! | ||
| Re: The Beach Boys [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 04:23 AM CDT cause its practically the same thing except one is on speed. Well, I guess it depends on how you look at it. I'll admit that it's not hard to imagine I Get Around, Fun Fun Fun or Surfin' USA as Ramones songs. I can see songs like those as being influencial to the Ramones sounds. But on the other hand, how would you describe the (early) Beach Boys sound? Words that come to my mind are warm, rich, layered, positive, sunny, hopeful... I don't think any of these descriptions apply to the Ramones' sound. Their music is definately late 50s/early 60s music on speed, I just can't really hear a particular Beach Boys vibe. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 04:09 AM CDT The Spring album has two new Brian compositions, three covers of already recorded Beach Boys songs, and seven other songs that were written by "songwriters" (Goffin/King etc). Two ? I'm seeing one - "Sweet Mountain". "Good Time" was about two years old in 1972, and "Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby" hails from 1963. Brian lost interest in the Spring project very quickly - even Marilyn tacitly admitted as much to me. In essence it was mixed and produced by Sandler & Desper... but as Steve said, "5% of Brian Wilson is better than 100% of most other people" (or Bruce - "Brian has more talent in his pinkie than I have in my entire body"). | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 03:40 AM CDT How many new songs did he contribute to Spring while producing them? I guess with his wife and sister and law there weren't creative constraints. The Spring album has two new Brian compositions, three covers of already recorded Beach Boys songs, and seven other songs that were written by "songwriters" (Goffin/King etc). | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 03:31 AM CDT The group tried constraining Brian several times...Pet Sounds, Smile, "Til I Die" (which they rejected and only accepted when they were desperate for material) are the examples that immediately come to mind. I think it's pretty obvious that while there was questions raised by Mike, Brian had full control over Pet Sounds and Smile and everyone worked pretty hard on those albums. Tiil I Die also has a great group effort and only in the dubious "autobiography" do we hear they didn't like it. Mike and Bruce even have done it live at least once, and it was one of the songs the Beach Boys brought with them to play on FM WPLJ I think in early 1971 to promot the Carnegie Hall show. With Pet Sounds and Smile, Brian was obviously in control, but I was speaking more to the resistance from the group...i.e. "don't foda with the formula" during Pet Sounds and the even stronger reactions to Smile. Without Brian leading the way, I'm sure they would have been just as happy to continue in the "California Girls" vein during that period. Thankfully he was still strong at that point and the group came around on Pet Sounds (not to mention their excellent work on what exists of Smile). With "Til I Die" I'm pretty sure that other sources (including the Carlin book) have confirmed that the group more or less flat out rejected the song initially, and only recorded it because they needed more material. Maybe they did warm up to it eventually, but as depressing a song as it is, I can't imagine it was what they were hoping to get from Brian at that point. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 03:22 AM CDT How many new songs did he contribute to Spring while producing them? I guess with his wife and sister and law there weren't creative constraints. | ||
| Re: first reaction when seeing this clip [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 02:48 AM CDT I don't think it's complete Mike Love propaganda. TM wouldn't've been portrayed so negatively. | ||
| Re: first reaction when seeing this clip [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 02:40 AM CDT I can't believe the entire Smile saga was reduced to just 3 minutes of screen time. You'd think they would give it at least 20 minutes. Oh yeah, and this is complete Mike Love propaganda. He should be ashamed of himself. | ||
| Re: When did Dennis lose his voice? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 02:24 AM CDT I heard an interview from early 1974 where he sounds like he would from 75-80, yet you are right he sounds pretty much like he did in 1973 on the June 1974 Help Me Rhonda. THe earliest I know for sure his voice changed was the Chicago tour when he sang In The Back Of My Mind. It's from May 1975. It's a lot smoother then it would be say on L.A. Light, but it sounds pretty much like it does on In The Still Of The Night. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 02:15 AM CDT The group tried constraining Brian several times...Pet Sounds, Smile, "Til I Die" (which they rejected and only accepted when they were desperate for material) are the examples that immediately come to mind. I think it's pretty obvious that while there was questions raised by Mike, Brian had full control over Pet Sounds and Smile and everyone worked pretty hard on those albums. Tiil I Die also has a great group effort and only in the dubious "autobiography" do we hear they didn't like it. Mike and Bruce even have done it live at least once, and it was one of the songs the Beach Boys brought with them to play on FM WPLJ I think in early 1971 to promot the Carnegie Hall show. | ||
| Re: first reaction when seeing this clip [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 01:29 AM CDT I can't stand the inaccuracies...and the glorification of the Lovester. VDP reduced to a weirdo stoner...Loren Schwartz, Mike Vosse, David Anderle, et. al. reduced to a studio musician named Tommy Schaefer and a bunch of faceless extras called the "drainers"...sudden jump from SMiLE to Let The Wind Blow...no Jack Reiley...no Blondie or Ricky...no trip to Holland...no Steve Desper...Bruce Playing with them on stage in '74...Brian with his 15 Big Ones era look in 1969...Brian being portrayed as a hapless "retard" (for lack of a better term).........there's so much more I could call out. Plus, did I already mention that they guy who played Murry was on the 2nd episode of Seinfeld, "Male Un-Bonding". He played a Jerry's friend Joel Horneck, who Jerry tried to "break up with" because he couldn't stand the guy, but Jerry couldn't go through with it because Horneck started crying when Jerry tried to "break up" with him. | ||
| Re: first reaction when seeing this clip [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 01:18 AM CDT I've always tried my best to stay away from that movie...but I figured I'd go ahead and watch it all tonight on Youtube. It's umm...interesting. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 12:55 AM CDT I also think that Brian was 'coasting' as Peter Carlin said of Brian in the late 1970's. He had worked enough he thought. Let the group go without him. He was writing just to himslef instead of the world. But Brian was also hurting tremedously from mental problems that weighed him down. Those problems contributed to those 'awful' songs in the late 70s (thinking of "A little something" etc). But Brian was also writing Night Bloomin Jasmine, so his talent has always been in tack. I think the group would have gotten behind Brian had Brian been strong enough at the time to say "Hey, here is what we are going to do!" and then followed through. If he had had a vision and a group of great songs to take them there, they would have followed. Because while money may have been a motivating factor, the group ALWAYS believed in the music, even Mike. And if it was there, they would have gone. But it wasn't. Because Brian couldn't be there. Too many other things were sidetracking him. I first met Brian in 1979. He was "ok". The really got to talk to him in 1981. Holy S**t. I walked away so sad that it kept me up all night. Thank goodness my memories of him in person talking are now from the SMILE tour wher he was a joy! Bob | ||
| Re: 1979 gigs [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 12:51 AM CDT Yeah, it's a cute little song. I actually kind of really like it. In addition to Suzie, there's a guy called Malibu Dave. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 12:41 AM CDT He was forced to work with the constraints set by the group. Who forced Brian? Who put constraints on Brian? By the group? Who in the group? The Beach Boys Love You was the straw that broke the camel's back. Never again would Brian be trusted to produce the group without somebody overseeing the work (probably Mike and/or Carl). On that I will agree with you. That condition still exists today. But I don't think Brian was being told or influenced to write certain music or a certain type of music. Who in the group would stand up to Brian Wilson when it came to songwriting? As I mentioned in my above post, there were some Brian Wilson-composed songs that appeared on Beach Boys' albums that shouldn't have been on there. But the guys were dying for ANYTHING from Brian. "Shortenin' Bread" is an example of anything. Who asked for that? The guys might've wanted 1965-66 type music. They might've wanted hits. And Brian might've felt pressured to deliver. But I believe the pressure was put on Brian, more by himself, than by others. The group tried constraining Brian several times...Pet Sounds, Smile, "Til I Die" (which they rejected and only accepted when they were desperate for material) are the examples that immediately come to mind. Granted there were many times where Brian was able to include his songs, but as the 70's progressed, they began to trust him less and less and rejected more and more of his material. As you said,"Love You" was really the straw that broke the camel's back. After that, Brian's opinion was more or less meaningless...his only use to them was his name. The group helped to kill "Adult Child", rejected "Mt. Vernon", and basically sent Brian a message that his contributions weren't welcome. It wasn't so much being told what to write as it was being told what NOT to write. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 May 2008 12:04 AM CDT Why wouldn't Brian be trusted after The Beach Boys Love You? Backed by the right amount of marketing, that album could have been a hit. Also, they should have taken it a lot easier as they had already become such a huge concert draw by that time. Who gives a foda about hit records? Just go into the studio and create whatever you want, people will love you anyway. By the way, I think by 1978 the Beach Boys had become just as unsupportive of Brian as they were of their very own individual talents. | ||
| When did Dennis lose his voice? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 11:01 PM CDT People always talk about Brian and his voice, but not much is said about Dennis's voice changing. Are there any concert or studio recordings from 1974-1975 that document when Dennis started losing his voice? I have heard a 1974 live recording of him singing "Help Me, Rhonda" from the Nassau Collisium, and he sounds good. But by the time he sang "In The Still Of The Night" from 15 Big Ones, there was a definite drop in his range, and he sounded a little hoarse overall. By the time he sang "Mona" just a year later, his voice was totally shot, never to return to what it was in the 1960's. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 09:36 PM CDT He was forced to work with the constraints set by the group. Who forced Brian? Who put constraints on Brian? By the group? Who in the group? The Beach Boys Love You was the straw that broke the camel's back. Never again would Brian be trusted to produce the group without somebody overseeing the work (probably Mike and/or Carl). On that I will agree with you. That condition still exists today. But I don't think Brian was being told or influenced to write certain music or a certain type of music. Who in the group would stand up to Brian Wilson when it came to songwriting? As I mentioned in my above post, there were some Brian Wilson-composed songs that appeared on Beach Boys' albums that shouldn't have been on there. But the guys were dying for ANYTHING from Brian. "Shortenin' Bread" is an example of anything. Who asked for that? The guys might've wanted 1965-66 type music. They might've wanted hits. And Brian might've felt pressured to deliver. But I believe the pressure was put on Brian, more by himself, than by others. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 08:55 PM CDT This statement "I think it's fair to say, starting with The Boys Love You and continuing to the present day, that Brian Wilson was free to create just about anything he wanted to. The Beach Boys were dying for Brian to be productive and return to his prior creativity." is a little bit un accurate. The truth is that the group wanted a certain kind of music from him...Mike clearly wanted commercial product and if Brian had a good idea great-but they were not encouraging him to make artistic statements or giving him control again. The group sought Steve Levine and Terry Melcher as producers because they no longer believed in Brian's abilities to produce a hit record, which is what they wanted. I don't think any member of the group will tell you they were trying to create art after 1981...they were trying to make pop records that sold well and if Brian wanted to help with that cool...but they didn't sign checks for him to go in the studio and try to create whatever he wanted...He was forced to work with the constraints set by the group. They were dying for him to write another Help Me Rhonda, but they weren't giving him the freedom to do anything. They would say- we're going to record with The Fat Boys, do you want to come and contribute? That's a far cry from, go in the studio with the freedom you had in 1966 and lets see what happens. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 08:32 PM CDT That was an excellent post, petsite! I guess The Beach Boys' history is relevant, of course, to nuts like us who spend way too many hours pondering, writing about, and supporting the band. But, I also think The Beach Boys are an institution in music history, and, their "story" definitely has a place there. I wanted to address one of the topics you touched on: I read David Leaf's book when it first came out, and I was fully engrossed in The Beach Boys' music at that time; that was basically all I listened to. I believed ALL of David Leaf's book then, and I still think it's the best Beach Boys' book out there. But there is one aspect of the book, and history, that has changed for me. One of David's major themes was, that if the band/the family/the record company/the fans would allow Brian Wilson to "stretch out" and be allowed to create the music that was in his head - and that he wants to create - then he would compose/produce great things. I believed that, too. I think it's fair to say, starting with The Boys Love You and continuing to the present day, that Brian Wilson was free to create just about anything he wanted to. The Beach Boys were dying for Brian to be productive and return to his prior creativity. They tolerated stuff like "TM Song", "Love Is A Woman", "Shortenin' Bread", and "I'm So Lonely", just buying their time, waiting for Brian to get better, waiting for the "serious" stuff to come. It never did. Brian had the opportunity, in his solo career, to record all the things that he wanted, outside the constraints of The Beach Boys. The albums of new material that we got were Brian Wilson 1988, Imagination, and Getting In Over My Head. In Brian's solo years, he certainly surrounded himself with interesting and creative people, and hopes were high that maybe something would "rub off" on him, or motivate him to do great, NEW things. Many people would probably say that BWPS, or a few isolated songs, justified or vindicated all of the hopes that people had for Brian after 1977, or after Love You, or after David Leaf's book. I don't know. Maybe TLOS will be that piece... | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 08:17 PM CDT The history is not relevant. It is just very entertaining. | ||
| Re: Beach Boys History - Is It Relevant? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 07:47 PM CDT I think you (as well as a lot of other folks...me included) are changing our relationship to music much the same way folks started to look at poetry differently in the early 20th century. Up till then if you wanted to understand a poem or view its importance, you read a biography of the author. Biographical interpretation. Not necessarily bad, but not always right either. Then came two movements. One was out of the Chicago School of literary criticism. The other was the Agrarians of Vanderbilt. Here is a quote from John Crowe Ransom's Wiki article "Ransom more or less founded the school of literary criticism known as the New Criticism, which gained its name from his 1941 volume of essays The New Criticism. This school, which dominated American literary thought throughout the middle 20th century, emphasized close reading, and criticism based on the texts themselves rather than on extraneous information. " I usually try to apply the same thought to a lot of my musical listening...ie. a song's greatness (whatever that means) not relying on the artists biography, on what was produced before, or or what was produced afterwards. What is the merits of that song. I think biographical information can add to the enjoyment of an artists music, but should not overbear the song. And all this is based on what the listener brings to the song. | ||
| BEAUTIFUL DREAMER BRIAN WILSON STORY OF SMILE Emmy DVD ["brian wilson"] Posted: 04 May 2008 07:35 PM CDT | ||
| Re: 1979 gigs [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 May 2008 06:19 PM CDT "Tokyo Suzie came back a California girl !" | ||
| Wouldn't It Be Nice, Brian Wilson, Todd Gold '91 HC/DJ ["brian wilson"] Posted: 03 May 2008 06:09 PM CDT | ||
| Beach Boys w/Brian Wilson Stars & Stripes CD Toby Keith ["brian wilson"] Posted: 03 May 2008 05:33 PM CDT
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| Beach Boys Tin Can Tribute CD Brian Wilson Japan Import ["brian wilson"] Posted: 03 May 2008 05:24 PM CDT |
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