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| Re: Byron Preiss book [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 05:30 AM CDT I always loved the commissioned pictures in it, especially the one for Cabinessence. Came out about the same time as David Leaf's in the late 1970s and provided us with more info on the unreleased material then previously available. | ||
| Re: Byron Preiss book [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 01:13 AM CDT I like the book a lot. It's about the music formost and that's what I care about. | ||
| Re: Big Bag of Vegetables 9-disk set??? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 12:52 AM CDT On the official Beach Boys box set that had the five or six 'SMiLE' releases on it, does anybody recall where the middle section of DYLW came from? It's where the 'Bicycle Rider' section would have gone, except this section sounds slightly warped (I think it sounds almost like a mellotron with Brian chanting over it-'oom dada'). I seem to recall someone saying it came from a box that had different little bits on it, but I can't recall what it was-doesn anybody know? The "Warped" section is a mastering defect by Capitol, which causes the tape to drag(I.E. slow down) at 2 places. I don't know if I would call it a mastering error. There was probably a tape drag and they decided not to fix it digitally. It is interesting that that section isn't on any of the boots. | ||
| Re: Big Bag of Vegetables 9-disk set??? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 12:43 AM CDT It is almost certain that there are acetates in existence that contain material that has not been booted. I don't think many unheard vocals could be found on acetates, but the final version of "Wind Chimes" would be realistic for example. The mix Michael Vosse talked about in 1969. I know the boxset version is supposed to be finished, but according to Vosse there were little music box overdubs on the piano part, mixed with different echos. Brian's musical arrangement of wind chimes tingling in the rough wind. Would love to hear that. Wow. That is fascinating. I'll have to read that 1969 Vosse interview again. I was thinking that the acetates might have Look/IRan with the group vocal ovedubs and CITFOTM with verse vocals. Another possibility I considered was DYLW with the 'ribbon of concrete' vocal. Do you think the acetates might have this stuff? | ||
| Interesting music trivia [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 12:29 AM CDT Most UK singles by a British co-writer - Lennon and McCartney are tied in first place. Third place goes to... Sporty Spice. | ||
| Re: Bo Diddley R.I.P [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 05 Jun 2008 12:02 AM CDT It's not bad, I have a couple of those LP's. I am more into his 55-65 stuff though. He did do a great remake for the La Bamba soundtrack of Who Do You Love in 1987. | ||
| Still Cruising After All These Years [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 10:40 PM CDT Motor Trend has a LONG interview with Mike Love regarding the many cars he has loved (the number is quite possibly higher than the number of wives he has loved). The quote below is about higher gas mileage and alternatives to gasoline.
My answer: build nuclear power plants and sell inexpensive electric cars powered by the electricity produced by the nuclear power plants. At the same time, drill for more oil here in the U.S., and build refineries in the U.S. Short term and long term solutions that are far more feasible than biofuels, which require a lot of energy to produce, make food prices high, and create their own special brand of pollution. | ||
| Re: Al Jardine and the Endless Summer Band Long Island NY 7/4/08 [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 10:37 PM CDT I know some of the Tripsitter guys are on that gig because I got a call to fill in for one of them at a Tripsitter/Good Vibrations gig in Ohio... | ||
| Re: AL JARDINE ON HEROES [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 10:37 PM CDT Chuck, is there any chance this interview (both parts) will be rerun on a weekday sometime? I'm not going to be anywhere near an Internet connection this weekend.  | ||
| Another Quarter For The JukeBox [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 10:04 PM CDT Dean Torrence, who is playing with David Marks in the Legends Of Surf Music, explains his concert philosophy.
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| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 09:21 PM CDT According to Steve, the multis were done at 30ips and the two track masters were both 30 and 15 under his tenure. Steve seemed to like 3M tape machines, but I don't know exactly all what was used over the course of the late 60s. Desper liked AGFA tape, but I saw plenty of Scotch...some Ampex, I don't remember everything. Boyd would be the one to ask, and of course this thread's eponym would know about that too. They seemed to go 24 in the 73-74 era, and were certainly all established in 24-track by 15 Big Ones, but I remember seeing some 24-track sheets pre-that album. | ||
| BEACH BOYS BRIAN WILSON MIKE LOVE + BAND SIGNED REPRINT ["brian wilson"] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 09:00 PM CDT
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| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 07:06 PM CDT when did they go to 24 track? mid 70s? also, what decks were they using in the late 60s? was the 8 track an Ampex and did it run @ 15 ips? I would think that Sunflower would be the 1st album done at 30 ips and some of those tracks were bounced from 15 ips 8 track tapes? do you or anyone else know what type of tapes the beach boys recorded on over the years (as in brand and forumlation)? I would suspect Scotch 206 or Ampex 406 from late 60s through mid 70s, then scotch 250 or ampex 456. I have no idea what they would have used prior to 1969 though. I would also be interested in finding out if the final mixes are on a different type of tape than the multi-track masters. thanks | ||
| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 05:14 PM CDT do you know what make and model of Phillips machine they used? was it a consumer deck with RCA ins/outs or a pro deck? i've been recording in a beach boys (circa mid-late 60s) inspired setup and have been slowly accumulating equipment, including a Scully 280 4 track. I recently picked up a vintage shure 545 mic and it sounds incredible. so if no drum sub-mixes were done (a good idea as it would have used an extra generation of tape), this means that the 1 and 2-track mixes were mixed "live" or prior to recording. do any of the multi-tracks have separate echo tracks? if so, then there a possibility that the echos were done after recording but prior to mixdown. i don't fully understand the capabilities of the boards that they were using, but there are ways on vintage boards to rig it up for several different sends/returns, depending on how many busses it had. Hmm...I'm fairly sure the Phillips units were custom made. They were pretty neat, though, I think there was something like 6-8 tape speeds and 5 adjustable repro heads. I have a modern 545 which I'm quite a fan of. Sounds slightly better than a 57. As far as I can tell, they didn't start giving reverbs or echos their own tracks until they went to 24-track. There's plenty of that kind of stuff notated for Love You, POB, etc. | ||
| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 04:49 PM CDT do you know what make and model of Phillips machine they used? was it a consumer deck with RCA ins/outs or a pro deck? i've been recording in a beach boys (circa mid-late 60s) inspired setup and have been slowly accumulating equipment, including a Scully 280 4 track. I recently picked up a vintage shure 545 mic and it sounds incredible. so if no drum sub-mixes were done (a good idea as it would have used an extra generation of tape), this means that the 1 and 2-track mixes were mixed "live" or prior to recording. do any of the multi-tracks have separate echo tracks? if so, then there a possibility that the echos were done after recording but prior to mixdown. i don't fully understand the capabilities of the boards that they were using, but there are ways on vintage boards to rig it up for several different sends/returns, depending on how many busses it had. | ||
| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 03:55 PM CDT Quote they might have even recorded the drums dry on several different tracks, then sent individual parts to the delay or the chamber, recorded them back (delay only) on separate tracks, then made a drum sub mix to 2 track, with all of the effects printed. the possibilities are almost endless ... i think maybe Desper is the only one that would know for sure. maybe they only had one chamber, but did they use any other electronic reverb devices (such as a spring unit, etc)? ... this would indeed let us know how much of the sound of the track was pre-planned and how many decisions were made during mixdown. based on the quality of the recordings, my hunch is that a lot of it was planned out ahead of time. Alan (Boyd) looked into whether there were ever instances of drum submix bounces ever done on the albums in question for me and couldn't find any evidence that that was ever done. That doesn't meen it couldn't have happened...but it wasn't documented, or has any early tape generation shown up. And like I said, every tracklist I've seen from Sunflower (which is just about every track) just has the two tracks of drums, or even mono. All that is just to say, I don't think they ever did anything all that elaborate. Steve told me that they never used EMT or Spring reverb. They did, of course, have tape delay available to them via the Phillips machine used for, among other things, the Do it Again intro drums, and to double the live vocals. And probably they had some tape machines around to do standard tape delay which I'm sure the DG snare is, tape-delayed. But you're very right, the pre-planning involved in laying out some of these tracks must have been inspiring. Bruce, by all accounts, was particularly meticulous in getting it all in order before they rolled tape. Stephen, if you ever check in on this thread, your book just wasn't technical enough for me! Also, I'm available to co-write your ultra-technical textbook that you don't know about. When are you going to write your tell-all, Mark? I know you've got stories to tell. | ||
| Byron Preiss book [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 03:23 PM CDT i've had this for awhile, but just finally got around to actually reading the text. it's not a bad book. there are a number of little inaccuracies but there's also some really interesting commentary from Jim Lockhart about recording processes. he spends a lot time on Smile and discusses other post-smile albums in detail and there are a lot of good pictures. not bad for a book that looks like you could have bought it from the scholastic books insert that used to come in the Weekly Reader | ||
| AL JARDINE ON HEROES [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 03:16 PM CDT Al Jardine, a founding member of The Beach Boys, has given an exclusive interview to Chuck Kelley, host of the weekly Beach Boys internet radio show, "Heroes & Villains" which will air on Saturday, June 7 from 1-2 PM (Pacific) on LuxuriaMusic.com During the interview, Jardine and Kelley spoke at length about the guitarist's first ever solo album, "A Postcard From California," which features guest appearances by Neil Young, Stephen Stills, Steve Miller, Flea, Glen Campbell, Brian Wilson and others. Jardine also spoke about the reunion he had with his fellow Beach Boys on top of the Capitol Records tower in 2006, touring with Brian Wilson in 2007, and now that all the lawsuits between Jardine and the rest of the Beach Boys have been settled, a possible Beach Boys reunion. At his website (www.aljardine.com) Jardine has made a number of tracks from the "A Postcard From California" available to sample. And listeners to Jardine's appearance on "Heroes & Villains" will be treated to an exclusive sampling of two tracks that haven't been heard anywhere else - a re-recording of the Beach Boys #1 hit single Help Me Rhonda with guest vocalist Steve Miller , and the long-in-the-making recording of Jardine's song "Dont Fight The Sea" which features vocals by Jardine, his son Matt Jardine, Brian Wilson, and Carl Wilson who died in 1998. http://www.luxuriamusic.com/blog/chuckkelley/founding-member-of-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-on-heroes-villains | ||
| Re: Charles Lloyd 'Warm Waters' [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 03:02 PM CDT Yeah, but I think he started recording with the Boys in '71. | ||
| Beach Boys Brian Wilson collection ..Summer in Paradise ["brian wilson"] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 02:34 PM CDT | ||
| A Tribute To Brian Wilson - Box O' Clox (CD 2004) ["brian wilson"] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 02:33 PM CDT | ||
| Re: The Mark Linett Thread [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 02:09 PM CDT Regarding processing on the snare drum...how about that killer delayed echo chamber effect on the "Disney Girls" snare? Brian's house had an echo chamber or two set up. Like Josh, I'm curious to know if that was printed on tape or just bused back into the board for the stereo mix? That's exactly what I sort of had in mind, the snare on DG. The implications of what the case is with that are interesting: If the two-track drum mix does have the slap on it, that means the decisions as to the song's production style were made very early. Which is neat. Also of interest, Steve was quite adamant that they only ever used the one chamber - so I kind of wonder how he did reverb; if he ever put reverb on things during live tracking, since it was one chamber, I imagine the individual returns would have some "reverb leakage" on it, so say they were recording a basic session of drums, ukulele, harmonica, bass, and clavinet: if everything was fed to the chamber, the soloed Uke track would have the reverb of everything on it? this is an interesting topic ... there are many ways that they could have done this, for instance, consider the following scenario: let's say thay wanted a specific kind of reverb/delay on a specific instrument (like the drums on "Disney Girls" for instance) but did not want this to affect the other instruments. they could have recorded the echo (with tape, chamber, or a combination of the 2) with the drums (or even on a separate track), and left the others out of the loop by feeding just the drum track to the chamber. then they would be able to add the reverb to everything else as needed during mixdown. they would only have "reverb leakage" if they sent many difference tracks to the chamber at once, or if there was leakage on the mics to begin with. the limitations would be they would only be able to choose one instrument (since there was only one chamber) during the basic tracking. if they were overdubbing, they could do this to the instruments individually as much as they wanted to. another possible scenario could be using several tape decks for the delays simultaneously (not sure how many they were using at a time), and then sending individual instruments to individual tape decks. a standard open reel tape deck can be used as a delay unit without a board or modifications easily by sending the signal to the deck, switching the deck to the "monitor" position, and then taking an output from the deck back into the main board. you can control the delay time by switching the tape speed (7.5 or 15 ips etc). you can even rig it up to loop back into itself, creating an actual reverb (as opposed to delay), though it doesn't sound like this was done in this case. so, the drums on "disney girls" etc could have been printed with the delay (either on the same 2 tracks as the drums or on a separate track for control during mixdown), then sent along with the other instruments to the chamber during mixdown, allowing the delay to only affect the drums. they might have even recorded the drums dry on several different tracks, then sent individual parts to the delay or the chamber, recorded them back (delay only) on separate tracks, then made a drum sub mix to 2 track, with all of the effects printed. the possibilities are almost endless ... i think maybe Desper is the only one that would know for sure. maybe they only had one chamber, but did they use any other electronic reverb devices (such as a spring unit, etc)? ... this would indeed let us know how much of the sound of the track was pre-planned and how many decisions were made during mixdown. based on the quality of the recordings, my hunch is that a lot of it was planned out ahead of time. PS i am very interested in these answers as well ... the 67-71 Beach Boys era is the benchmark of recorded sound in my opinion. Donny | ||
| Re: Charles Lloyd 'Warm Waters' [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 02:06 PM CDT He was in the touring band New Years 76/77 when I saw them but this LP was much earlier. Quote He sort of quit playing in a band in 1969 and became a teacher of transcendental meditation. and, interestingly, got into real estate. | ||
| Re: Charles Lloyd 'Warm Waters' [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 01:25 PM CDT There's more than that. He played things like the flute on Feel Flows and Everyone's in Love With You. Charles was also in the touring group for awhile. Here's a video of them performing Feel Flows with a long Charles Lloyd flute solo - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pplzKDgcmj0 | ||
| Re: Charles Lloyd 'Warm Waters' [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 12:59 PM CDT In the early 70-s a lot of jazz musicians entered the world of rock, hence jazzrock came alive. Charles Lloyd, he plays saxophone/flute, was such a musician. Lloyd's music was called a jazz-psychedelic cross over. In those days he was found regularly on stage at the Fillmore with bands like Quicksilver Messenger Service and The Grateful Dead. In the world of jazz he's recognized as one of jazz's great performers. His band even played the Fillmore West. Before he formed his own band, he played with Cannonball Adderley (1964-65). He sort of quit playing in a band in 1969 and became a teacher of transcendental meditation. That's the link to the Beach Boys and especially Mike Love. Because of this friendship Charles Lloyd played on several tracks on Beach Boys albums. He also played with Mike Love in their band Celebration. In 1972 there was another Charles Lloyd album, called Waves with the song TM which has Alan, Carl, Mike and Billy. Both albums are hard to find... | ||
| Re: Handwritten lyrics [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 11:56 AM CDT See, there's no frame of reference for Dean's copy of the "Surf City" lyric sheet. There's no way to tell WHEN he crossed out the lyrics, even if it was on a sheet with Brian's handwriting. Dean could have changed an old lyric sheet after the song was updated. M. Putting Dean's 'debateable' contribution aside and not wanting to get into another Jan vs. Dean type debate… How much input into 'Surf City' did BW actually have? The lyrics which Dean has show, (prior to his amendments), a set of lyrics which do not correspond 100% to those of the final version of the song yet supposedly they are written out in Brian's hand… If Jan took the 'Goodie Connie' song from Brian then effectively went away and wrote a completely new set of lyrics with NO BW input (ie. the FINAL version), why then does there exist an 'intermediate' set of lyrics written out by Brian? Surely, if Brian was not involved, wouldn't any preliminary lyrics only be written out solely by Jan? My guess is this: Melody : Brian (from 'Goodie Connie') Lyrics : Brian & Jan with input from Dean Production/Arrangement : Jan But as was stated, just like there is no way of knowing in what time frame/situation Dean made his amendments, maybe equally there is no way of knowing for sure if Brian's hand written lyrics were made during the actual creative process of writing the song… (Maybe at some later date Jan dictated what words he had, and Brian simply noted down what was said without contributing anything…?!) Who knows either way...? According to Jan, he and Brian wrote both the music and lyrics together at Brian's piano. Brian's own statements support this (at least in part), explaining that he and Jan wrote "Surf City" by sitting down together at a piano -- and Brian claims they wrote the song really fast. I think the Groseclose story is the only reference to the "Goodie Connie" scenario -- which could be quite true, but no other supporting evidence. Don Altfeld has also floated the idea (to myself and others) that Roger Christian later claimed to have co-written the lyrics, and it became an issue when Jan first tried to get his writing credit restored to "Little Old Lady" (which finally happened officially, much later, in 2002 -- thanks to Don Altfeld). "Honolulu Lulu" -- the follow-up hit after "Surf City" -- was Roger's first official credit. But as a friend and lyricist, Roger Christian stuck with Jan Berry all the way through Carnival of Sound in 1967-68, and well into the 1970s (Jan's solo singles). So if there was a rift there, it developed late in the game. Dean may well have had input. It would make sense on the surface . . . Yet all indictaions point to Dean not being a member of Jan's creative inner circle, at least as remembered and related (in interviews with me) by Jan's associates. Dean's name appears on precious few Jan & Dean songs (in terms of writing credit) . . . and it seems that Dean co-wrote more during the earlier pre-surf phase of their career. M. | ||
| Re: Bad, but catchy [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 04 Jun 2008 11:46 AM CDT I like that part, too. I love listening to it in the car when someone's sitting next to me and mouthing the words. |
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