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| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 06:45 AM CDT Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated. Yes, I got into the Beach Boys through Pet Sounds, where Brian had most leads. Mike's lead on That's Not Me was my least favorite on the album. Knowing nothing about the Beach Boys, I just had a less favorable view of that lead vocal. The bass singer, on the other hand, was great!  |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 06:42 AM CDT I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work. Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too). I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion. There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly. If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing. It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals. It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives. So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike: * Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days. As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids. It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman. * Bass vocals. Outstanding work in the '60s. Very underrated as a bass singer. * Lyrics. I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience). Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry. * Advocacy of TM. Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years. That takes balls. * Punching Out Murry in '63. * Showing Up For Work. For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning. And he clearly loves what he does. It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike. Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses. I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike. Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa). You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks. There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him. But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years. I couldn't have dealt with it... Very well said. I agree with everything in this post (except I think Tony Asher was the best lyricist and I got into the BBs from Pet Sounds.) |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 06:14 AM CDT Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated. Agreed. In My Room and Wouldn't It Be Nice were the songs that really kicked it off for me--Mike's voice annoyed me. Now I like it OK, though. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 05:52 AM CDT I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work. Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too). Good post, but actually he comes off better with most people I have talked to then his rep. Bruce that's another story....... I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion. There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly. If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing. It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals. It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives. So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike: * Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days. As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids. It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman. * Bass vocals. Outstanding work in the '60s. Very underrated as a bass singer. * Lyrics. I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience). Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry. * Advocacy of TM. Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years. That takes balls. * Punching Out Murry in '63. * Showing Up For Work. For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning. And he clearly loves what he does. It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike. Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses. I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike. Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa). You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks. There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him. But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years. I couldn't have dealt with it... |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 05:18 AM CDT And I don't know if it's fair to claim that Mike doesn't get things like artistic quality, attitue and asthetic. If anything, he simply has his own ideas about what constitutes such things. You or I may not agree with his ideas, but to say he doesn't "get" such things is certainly approaching the parameters of "bashing" |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 05:11 AM CDT Wonderful post, Adam. No need for me or anyone else to knock or argue with any of it. I will say, however, that there are a lot of people, myself included who did come to love the Beach Boys through their early hits. I grew up in Hawthorne with my parents blasting Endless Summer, so the Boys were mythic. As I got older I re-approached the BBs through their late 60s and 70s work and fell in love with them all over again. But it will always be the early hits that grabbed a hold of me. Therefore I happen to simply be a fan of Mike's work. How can I not be if I love the early stuff so much? So, naturally I will defend him. And I'm not just an "early hits guy" My top two BBs albums are Holland and All Summer Long. Great examples of both sides of the Beach Boys coin. And IMHO, Mike contributed GREATLY to the Beach Boys late 60's-70s work. Sure, he didn't sing lead on every other song or duo with Brian, but his voice was extremely prominent and kept the band SOUNDING like the Beach Boys. Which to me, is an important factor. I love when he comes in during the breakdown in "It's About Time".... It's so obviously the same band who cut "Surfin" but it's a completely different thing yet still the same. To me this is glorious. The guy co-wrote almost all of Wild Honey. And let's not forget he sand lead on the album version of "Let The Wind Blow." Other great later stuff Mike contributed to heavily or at least has a writing credit on. Meant For You All I wanna Do Add Some Music Only With You Sound of Free POB All This Is That He Come Down Big Sur Do It Again Good Vibrations Let us Go On This Way Time To Get Alone It's Ok Don't Go Near The Water Cool Cool Water (my all time favorite BBS song) Goin On Sumahama Funky Pretty Be Here In The Morning ..... And let's not forget the guy did write the lyrics for I'm Waiting For The Day. He's has that credit on Pet Sounds and you and I don't. Also.... Please Let Me Wonder (some of my favorite lyrics of all-time) I won't get into the eary early stuff. And so much of it is good. I'm just trying to point out that it IS possible to be a legitimate fan of Mike's. And if you started as a fan, no matter what you hear or read, you're still at least a fan of his contributions. And he continued to be a great frontman all through the 70's. His 80's and 90s outfits are horrid and they really did a lot to make the band look cheesier than they had to. His 70s outfits might have been silly, but I for one think he most always looked at least weird if not cool. And weird is just about as good. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 04:27 AM CDT I was one of those people who was very put off by the Beach Boys sun 'n' surf image as conveyed by Mike Love, and loathed them instinctively until I discovered them through their '70s work. Then I started working my way back and grew to appreciate the '60s stuff as well....the point is well taken, but it's equally true that there are a lot of people that might be more receptive to the Beach Boys if not for the image that Mike sometimes personifies (and yeah, other members of the band have contributed to this problem at various points too). I also get tired of the word "bashing," as if anyone who has issues with Mike (or anybody else for that matter) is on some sort of biased delusion. There's plenty on the public record to criticize, and what I've heard privately from those that knew him has not made me feel he's been treated unfairly. If the criticism is fair and warranted, it's not bashing. It's criticism, which is a form of accountability for public figures, who by definition have more power (and lawyers) than us mere mortals. It's also subject to rebuttal or other perspectives. So having said that, I'd like to pivot here and second some of the things that were said here in praise of Mike: * Mike was absolutely crucial in the early days. As someone else pointed out, you needed that cocky/corny front man to put the music over to the kids. It sometimes got in the way later, but in the early days Mike ruled as a frontman. * Bass vocals. Outstanding work in the '60s. Very underrated as a bass singer. * Lyrics. I think Mike's role as a songwriter has been overstated a little (in my opinion the best lyricist the BBs ever had may have been Roger Christian), but he's written some ace lyrics (again, mostly in the early days when he really knew how to talk to his audience). Forget "The Warmth of The Sun," "Fun Fun Fun" is real poetry. * Advocacy of TM. Yeah, he's been heavy handed in his TM obsession, but it's something the guy believes in and genuinely feels will benefit humanity, and he's pursued it faithfully and in the face of a great deal of derision for 40 years. That takes balls. * Punching Out Murry in '63. * Showing Up For Work. For better or worse, Mike's been the most devoted (and probably driven) member of the band, at nearly every show since the beginning. And he clearly loves what he does. It's true that you can't have the Beach Boys from '62-65 without Mike. Brian was the engine but Mike had a key role in making it work for the masses. I'd argue that Mike never comfortably found his niche in the "new" Beach Boys, and that's why he's tended to pull the band in a direction that he's more comfortable with. I know it doesn't sound like it, but I have a certain level of sympathy for Mike. Being in a band with Brian and Dennis had to be absolutely exasperating for him (and, of course, vice versa). You're there for 40 years, you do your job and stay clean, and everyone hates you and loves your drugged out cousins from the wrong side of the tracks. There are solid reasons why that is, starting with matters of artistic quality, attitude and aesthetic, but those are not things Mike really "gets," and absent understanding that, it all must seem very unfair to him. But there ya go...six real people dealing with difficult situations for 47 years. I couldn't have dealt with it... |
| Is this Susie Cinncinatti? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 04:07 AM CDT Joellyn Lambert, 73, Newport Joellyn Jane Lambert, 73, of Newport, passed away Thursday, May 1, 2008 at St. Luke Hospice Unit. She was the daughter of the late Joseph and Mary Scherk Holmes. Joellyn was preceded in death by her husband, Gaylord Antrobus and a son, Barry Lee Bacher. She is survived by daughters, Delia G. Green of Newport, Angela Vane Starns of Covington, Linda Marie Lalley of Ft. Thomas; sons, David Allen Bacher of Nashville, Tenn., Bruce Eric Bacher (RuthAnn) of Bowling Greene, Ky, Robert Leroy Lambert (Michelle) of Nashville; sisters, Mary Elizabeth Aylesworth (David) of ShallowWater, Texas, Geneva Joan Thompson (Eugene) of Seattle, Washington; 12 Grandchildren and 16 Great Grandchildren. Funeral services were held on Friday, May 2, 2008 at Peoples Funeral Home in Butler. A cremation ceremony was held. Memorials are suggested to go to the children of Joellyn Lambert. |
| Re: Photo of Brian holding record in pool [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 03:59 AM CDT You mean this one?  I think this ones from later though. Yes! Thank you, Don't Know A Thing. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 03:01 AM CDT Quote I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before. Jason: I will say it again. Please don't presume to speak for me. I will say it again, in case I wasn't clear the first time: Mike Love's lead vocals were not what attracted me to the Beach Boys. Perhaps it was because I liked these songs: Surfer Girl In My Room Don't Worry Baby Help Me Rhonda God Only Knows Wouldn't It Be Nice Heroes and Villains Darlin None of which, you will note, have a "Michael" Love lead vocal on them. Yes, yes, he's on the WIBN bridge. I know. There is no question, that in general, Mike's distinctive nasal tone was one of the things that set the BBs apart and that made many people like them. However, those songs have always been my least favorite in the catalog, and they were not the ones that led me to explore the band. And yes, my opinion of Mike Love has been "biased" by witnessing what he has said and done in the last fifteen years. I won't run through the list; folks can reach their own conclusions, as I have reached mine. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I like his voice. Hell, I like Phil Spector records, and he probably shot a woman. Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it. ditto - except the SIP bit  and add Surf's Up, I Can Hear Music, most of Pet Sounds - just about anything that has Carl's voice on it. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 02:29 AM CDT Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it. I think actually listening let alone enjoying Summer In Paradise ought to be a special Beach Boys medal of honor. Maybe I'll design one and manufacture em and hand em out! That would be cool. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 02:08 AM CDT Quote I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before. Jason: I will say it again. Please don't presume to speak for me. I will say it again, in case I wasn't clear the first time: Mike Love's lead vocals were not what attracted me to the Beach Boys. Perhaps it was because I liked these songs: Surfer Girl In My Room Don't Worry Baby Help Me Rhonda God Only Knows Wouldn't It Be Nice Heroes and Villains Darlin None of which, you will note, have a "Michael" Love lead vocal on them. Yes, yes, he's on the WIBN bridge. I know. There is no question, that in general, Mike's distinctive nasal tone was one of the things that set the BBs apart and that made many people like them. However, those songs have always been my least favorite in the catalog, and they were not the ones that led me to explore the band. And yes, my opinion of Mike Love has been "biased" by witnessing what he has said and done in the last fifteen years. I won't run through the list; folks can reach their own conclusions, as I have reached mine. But this has nothing whatsoever to do with whether I like his voice. Hell, I like Phil Spector records, and he probably shot a woman. Edit: Admittedly, I have recently listened to the Summer In Paradise album again and enjoyed it. That's right, enjoyed it. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 01:49 AM CDT Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated. Yeah, great point, I totally agree. The Today album's full of Lovester bass vocals, Breakaway being good later example of this I reckon. However, quite a few people I know are are irritated by Brian and Carl's leads and don't mind Mike's. Perhaps he had a more conventional "pop" vocal range? Incidentally, for me Mike isn't evil, at some stage would have been a great laugh - but definitely lost the plot at some stage in... lots of ways. Such is rock'n'roll I guess. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 01:26 AM CDT My opinion tends to piss people off, but it's an honest opinion therefore I will speak it. Lots of people who consider themselves hipsters and into edgy weird stuff: when approaching the Beach Boys, they go searching around for something hip weird and cool in the BBs catalog (to me it's ALL hip weird and cool, but nevermind) and of course they're drawn to the Smile stuff naturally. Then from there they get really into the story of Smile and they read Dominic Piore and David Leaf stuff and suddenly Mike's the Hitler of rock n roll and that's it, end of story. |
| Re: Photo of Brian holding record in pool [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 22 Jul 2008 01:14 AM CDT Did Brian get royalties for Endless Summer? I'm sorry if this makes me look my usual sarcastic self, but that is the single most inane question I've ever seen on any BB/BW MB in my ten years online. Just where do you think Brian's money comes from these days ? His tours ? The merchandising ? The sales of his last few albums ? Hey AGD, your posts makes out that B. Diddy (aka: Billy C) posted that comment, when it wasn't him  Dammit, took the wrong quotes out. Apologies to all concerned. Except the good Sheriff, of course. Ah, quite alright buddy. I will say though that I can understand the question, due to Murry fodaing over Brian by selling Sea of Tunes. I think that's where he was coming from with that. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 11:54 PM CDT Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated. Opinions = facts in the minds of those who have them.  Serious answer follows. I do admit to being more than a trifle brusque with the preceding comment but I find it very hard to believe that people with absolutely no interest in the Beach Boys could get into them without the strength of the classic tunes which Michael sang lead on. IMO, of course, it seems like these fans are speaking with the cloudiness of hindsight and one too many reads of a biased book on the topic or Brian's consistently confounded responses to a stupid interviewer's questions which he's been asked a thousand times before. They all had their places. Mike was the lead singer. Brian had the high voice. Carl was the angel. Dennis was Dennis. Al was the man on the corner. However, the best singer in the band was not one of them alone, but the combination of all five, or six, or even SEVEN (!) of them. Individually they weren't great, or maybe even good singers for the most part, but together they ruled. Keep it clean with Al Jardine. |
| Beachboys? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 11:45 PM CDT Were the Beach Boys ever billed this way? I know they were billed as "Beach Boys" without the the on the first single. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 11:30 PM CDT Um. Jason, please don't presume to speak for me. It was not Mike's voice that got me hooked -- it was Brian's. Don't Worry Baby, Surfer Girl. I always found Mike's leads somewhat grating. His bass singing, on the other hand -- that is truly underrated. |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 10:52 PM CDT Mike is very important on so many levels. I think many (if not all) of his post '73 decisions were misguided, but until that time he created some wonderful work. If others hadn't sought to bash him I bet that he wouldn't be so overly defensive today. After I learned how many songs he actually wrote, I changed my mind about him quite a bit. |
| BRIAN WILSON SMILE DOUBLE LP - BEACH BOYS OOP 12" ["brian wilson"] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 10:12 PM CDT |
| Re: Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 10:09 PM CDT Any true fan of the Beach Boys knows it was the voice on the classic hits that got them hooked to begin with. Anyone who disagrees is kidding themselves. /thread |
| Mike Love [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 09:46 PM CDT I read a lot of stuff. I read that mike love wasn't very talented and just lucked out by being one of the wilson's cousins. Ive also read that he was important to the historic musical contributions made by the group. I have my opinions.....Does it seem though that in recent years Mike's reputation has kind of been restored a bit......through various means......I mean it seems he might not be as despised as he once was...........Maybe I'm imagining that, but.........It seems to me sometimes ...that people are very quick to jump on the anti mike love bandwagon....., almost in a knee jerk reaction, sort of way..."Oh no one can contradict the almighty brian wilson"........am i off base there?......to be honest, in my opinion.....mike love was my favorite singer in the beach boys......and brian was probably my second favorite lead singer....... i suppose it may be sacrilegous....but, ive never been as impressed as other people seem to have been with carl's vocals - particularly his lead vocals....(although I've always loved his voice in the context of the group blend, but i find many of his leads off putting)........anyways.....I think Brian and Mike are tops...... |
| Re: Lowest point in the BB career? [Smiley Smile Message Board] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 09:43 PM CDT I would have rather the Boys had done "Harmony" or High Flying Bird or Someone Saved My Life Tonight. Crocf was too obvious a choice. |
| Two Perspectives On John Stamos [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 09:24 PM CDT Two reviews of John Stamos' performance on July 4th. First, the good news:
Now, the bad news:
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| Why Pacific Ocean Blue Was Finally Reissued [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 08:46 PM CDT Jim Guercio explains what finally brought POB back.
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| Stan Love and the Pacific Ocean Blue Tour [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 08:37 PM CDT Is this why the Pacific Ocean Blue tour was canceled?
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| I Praise Loudly, I Blame Softly [Smiley Smile Dot Net] Posted: 21 Jul 2008 08:28 PM CDT Brian Wilson sings the merits of Phil Spector.
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